Talk:Nenets people

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Samoyed is old[edit]

Samoyed is now, I believe, laregly considered an insulting colonial term, Nenets tends to be prefered by the people themselves, I think. Just a comment - Kaet 00:09, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)

How about Finnish samoojat = "the wanderers"? -- Vuo 05:46, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You are wrong[edit]

You're wrong about that. Samoyed is the term which is general for ALL of them. Nganasan, nenets, enets and selkup are all "Samoyed". It's their general name which indicates that they're related.

Words Nenets and Samoyed ARE NOT SYNONYMS. Nenets are part of the Samoyed people, not The Samoyed people.

And there are other problems in this article which need addressing. Til those are fixed this article cannot be taken as a proper valid source of information.

(PS. I've studied the subject on "university-level".)

frenologi[edit]

We can't have scull considerations since the knowledge today has advanced, i.e. the organs in the scull is not tissues that grows in time but it is a brain that is slowly broken down in time. // Rogper 18:17, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

The following piece (coming from 1911 EB) is dismissed as probably obsolete.

The conclusions deducible from their anthropological features - apart from the general difficulty of arriving at safe conclusions on this ground alone, on account of the variability of the ethnological type under various conditions of life - are also rather indefinite. The Samoyedes are recognized as having the face more flattened than undoubtedly Finnish stocks; their eyes are narrower, their complexion and hair darker. Zuyev describes them as like the Tunguses (Evenks), with flattened nose, thick lips, little beard and black, hard hair. At first sight they may be mistaken for Ostiaks (Khants) - especially on the Ob River - but they are undoubtedly different. Castren considers them as a mixture of Ugrians with Mongolians, and Zograf as brachycephalic Mongolians. Quatrefages classes them, together with the Voguls (Mansi), as two families of the Ugrian sub-branch, this last, together with the Sami (Lapps), forming part of the Ugrian or Boreal branch of the yellow or Mongolic race.

An expert must figure out what can be salvaged. Mikkalai 18:31, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

why not?[edit]

Вышла в свет "Северная энцклопедия" В январе 2005 года вышла в свет «Северная энциклопедия», включающая четыре тысячи пятьсот статей от «А» до «Я». Is somebody able to make a connection to these peoples? Why not to make a servernaya-wikipedia? Ilja Lorek 19:08, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Can someone predict what is the future of Nenets people?[edit]

Someone please help us to predict.Your cooperation is much appreciated. =)

"related groups" info removed from infobox[edit]

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Outdated EB1911 section[edit]

The section is based on the text from 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica

The people may be subdivided into three main groups:

(a) The Yuraks in the coast-region from the Yenisei to the White Sea; (b) the Tavghi Samoyedes, between the Yenisei and the Khatanga; (c) the Ostiak Samoyedes, intermingled with Ostiaks, to the south of the others, in the forest regions of Tobolsk and Yeniseisk. Their whole number may be estimated at from 20,000 to 25,000. The so-called Samoyedes inhabiting the S of the governments of Tomsk and Yeniseisk have been much under Tatar influence and appear to be of a different stock; their sub-groups are the Kamasin Tatars, the Kaibals, the Mators (aka "Motors"), the Beltirs, the Karagasses and the Samoyedes of the middle Ob.

The proper place of the Samoyedes among the Ural-Altaians is very difficult to determine. The names assumed by the Samoyedes themselves are Hazovo and Nyanyäz (Nenets). The Ostiaks know them under the names of Orghoy, or Workho, both of which recall the Ugrians; the name of Hui is also in use among the Ostiaks (Khants), and that of Yaron among the Syrgenians.

It is probable that formerly the Samoyedes occupied the Altay Mountains, whence they were driven north by Turco-Tatars. Thus, the Kaibals left the Sayan mountains and took possession of the Abakan steppe (Minusinsk region), abandoned by the Kirghizes, in the earlier years of last century, and in northeast Russia the Zyrians (Komi peoples) are still driving the Samoyedes farther north, towards the Arctic coast. Since the researches of Schrenk it may be regarded as settled that in historical times the Samoyedes were inhabitants of the so-called Ugria in the northern Urals, while Radlov considers that the numberless graves containing remains of the Bronze Age which are scattered throughout West Siberia, on the Altay, and on the Yenisei in the Minusinsk region, are relics of Ugro-Samoyedes. According to his views this nation, very numerous at that epoch - which preceded the Iron Age civilization of the Turco-Tatars, - were pretty well acquainted with mining; the remains of their mines, sometimes 50 ft. deep, and of the furnaces where they melted copper, tin and gold, are very numerous; their weapons of a hard bronze, their pots (one of which weighs 75 lb), and their melted and polished bronze and golden decorations testify to a high development of artistic feeling and industrial skill, strangely contrasting with the low level reached by their earthenware. They were not nomads, but husbandmen, and their irrigation canals are still to be seen. They kept horses (in small numbers), sheep and goats, but no traces of their rearing horned cattle have yet been found. The Turkish invasion of southern Siberia, which took place in the 5^th century, drove them farther north, and probably reduced most of them to slavery.

The Samoyedes, who now maintain themselves by hunting and fishing on the lower Ob, partly mixed in the south with Ostiaks (Khants), recall the condition of the inhabitants of France and Germany at the epoch of the reindeer. Clothed in skins, like the troglodytes of the Weser, they make use of the same implements in bone and stone, eat carnivorous animals - the wolf included - and cherish the same superstitions (of which those regarding the teeth of the bear are perhaps the most characteristic) as were current among the Stone Age inhabitants of western Europe. Their heaps of reindeer horns and skulls - memorials of religious ceremonies - are exactly similar to those dating from the similar period of civilization in northern Germany. Their huts often resemble the well-known stone huts of the Eskimo; their graves are mere boxes left in the tundra. The religion is fetishism mixed with Shamanism, the shaman (tadji-bei) being a representative of the great divinity, the Num. The Yamal Peninsula, where they find great facilities for hunting, is especially venerated by the Ob Ostiak Samoyedes, and there they have one of their chief idols, Khese. They are more independent than the Ostiaks, less yielding in character, although as hospitable as their neighbours. They are said to be disappearing owing to the use of ardent spirits and the prevalence of smallpox. They still maintain the high standard of honesty mentioned by historical documents, and never will take anything left in the tundra or about the houses by their neighbours. The Yurak Samoyedes are courageous and warlike; they offered armed resistance to the Russian invaders, and it is only since the beginning of the century that they have paid tribute. The exact number of the Ostiak Samoyedes is not known; the Tavghi Samoyedes may number about 1000, and the Yuraks, mixed with the former, are estimated at 6000 in Obdorsk (about 150 settled), 5000 in European Russia in the tundras of the Mezefl, and about 350 in Yeniseisk.

Of the Samoyedes, who are completely Tatarized, the Beltirs live by agriculture and cattle-breeding in the Abakan steppe. They profess Christianity, and speak a language closely resembling that of the Sagai Tatars. The Kaibals, or Koibals, can hardly be distinguished from the Minusinsk Tatars, and support themselves by rearing cattle. Castrén considers that three of their stems are of Ostiak origin, the remainder being Samoyedic. The Kamasins, in the Kama district of Yeniseisk, are either herdsmen or agriculturists. They speak a language with an admixture of Tatar words, and some of their stems contain a large Tatar clement. The interesting nomadic tribe of Karagasses, in the Sayan Mountains, is disappearing; the few representatives are rapidly losing their anthropological features, their Turkish language and their distinctive dress. The Mators are now little more than a memory. One portion of the tribe emigrated to China and was there exterminated ^{[citation needed]}; the remainder have disappeared among the Tuba Tatars and the Soyotes. The Samoyedes on the Ob in Tomsk may number about 1000; they have adopted the Russian manner of life, but have difficulty in carrying on agriculture, and are a poverty-stricken population with little prospect of holding their own.

The section does not appear to be salvageable. --Ghirla^-трёп- 06:53, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Samojeds[edit]

According to Strahlenberg (1730) the Handa - Hui (Ostjakki) - Samojeds are originated from "Sauomis sembla" ie Sameäna (Saameland). The name Samojed comes from Turcic "man eater" which was adopted by the Russians. Another version says that Samojed comes from Russian samojedushtshij or samoidyshtshij "wanderer or skier" as Saame word "skritofinni".

One just wonder why - again - one of the most comprehensive studies of Samojeds by Dr Kai Donner published under titles "Eteläisten oatjakki-samojedien luona", "Siperian samojedien keskuudessa" and in his "Siperia" has not even mentioned here. He spent long periods among them in 1908 - 1914. He list following Samojed tribes:

-- Avam Samojeds, a small group living in Taimyr peninsula.

-- Jenisei Samojeds, a small Samojed tribe living in Jenisei river valley.

-- Jurakki Samojeds, the largest Samojed tribe.

-- Kamassi Samojeds, near dying extinct.

-- Karagassi Samojeds, already extinct Samojed tribe.

-- Koibal Samojeds, already extinct Samojed tribe.

-- Matori Samojeds, already extinct Samojed tribe.

-- Handa Hui (Ostjakki) Samojeds

-- Sojootti Samojeds, alredy extinct Samojed tribe.

Handa Hui people called the Samojeds "Jaran". In addition it is said that Hakassit are mixture of Samojeds and a Turcic tribe from Altai. Some Siberian Samojeds, named Ket, live still in Tannu Tuva region and Mongolia.

JN

Incorrect etymology?[edit]

I'm having serious doubts about that etymology section. I have never before heard that the Nenets - or other "samoyed" peoples for that matter - have ever referred to themselves as "samiid" or their country as "sami". That would be the Sámi who are distantly related to them but have never been called "samoyeds" by the Russians (the term used for the Sámi has been "lopar´", i.e. "lapp"). Where is this etymology information from? Does anyone have a source, or is it just random speculation based on imperfect knowledge of the north's nations? --Misha bb (talk) 09:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Consumption of raw meat[edit]

Hi. II came across this photo, which I find foth striking and odd. Even if a people/ culture has the habit of eating raw meat, surely this would be done like the eating of all other food - in a setting that looks like people having a meal, not in the wild/ outdoors where the aimal has been slaughtered. The photo is widely available, so perhaps you might prefer reading about it from a different site that you know better or with more details like this one. Any comments? Thanks. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 08:57, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

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Inconsistent data on population[edit]

Introduction points out that there are 44,857 in Russian Federation according to the last census. However, the chart points out 97,640. I can't check the reference because it's written in Russian. Can someone else check the right figures?--Thevictorator95 (talk) 11:28, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

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