Talk:Tocharians
Talk:Tocharians
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Stop doing original research[edit]
Asia history, Wikipedia policy on sources require the sources to actually match with the content. You are using a genetic study on modern Uyghurs which says they have Europoid and East Asian contributions to their gene pool, but says zero about which ethnicities contributed to that gene pool. Then you are using this same study and using it to link Tocharians and Uyghurs. The source has to actually say Tocharians contributed to the gene pool of modern Uyghurs in order for you to use it in that matter. Read WP:OR. You need to find a reliable source which says Tocharians contributed to the modern Uyghur gene pool and use that. Stop edit warring. The genes could come from Sakas and other Indo-European peoples which is why you need a source which says its from Tocharians. Most modern Uyghurs live in the southwestern corner of the Tarim Basin where the Saka Kingdom of Khotan was located. Tocharians lived in the northern rim of the Tarim Basin.Rajmaan (talk) 05:40, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
- Kansas Bear Nlu Zanhe Can someone help explain to Asia History that he can't revert for no reason and draw conclusions not found in the source? The edit warring is already reached 3 reverts and Asia History is not being cooperative or responding here. His latest revert had no edit summar.Rajmaan (talk) 06:00, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
- Regarding "related": the spurce does indeed only say:
- "Xinjiang, China has been a contact zone of the peoples from Central Asia and East Asia. In particular, the presence of a Tocharian (an extinct Indo-European language)-speaking population during the first millennium, the discovery of mummies with European features dating from 3,000–4,000 YBP (Years Before Present), and the existence of West Eurasian mitochondrial-DNA lineages clearly indicate the influence of populations of European descent in this region," [1]
- It does not say that the Tocharians contributed to the gene-pool of the Uyghurs, even less that the Uyghurs are related to the Tocharians. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:57, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the very necessary remark! However, we urgently need here results for the genetic relationship of reliably (!) Tocharian (!) corpses! HJHolm (talk) 14:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Weeping lady mural[edit]
The mural at right has been added as a representation of a "Tocharian lady". However, according to this article by the curator of the exhibit in which it features,
- Elikhina, Julia (2013). "The Renovated Central Asia Exhibit in the State Hermitage Museum" (PDF). The Silk Road. 11: 154–171.
this mural (fig. 10 there, captioned "Weeping lady" or "Weeping noble woman") is from the Uighur period. Kanguole 13:45, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, seems correct. Useful PDF! Johnbod (talk) 16:22, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- The mural is indeed from the Uyghur period but the lady depicted is Tocharian, according to the label in-situ of the exhibited item. Using this mural to illustrate the Tocharian article is still not unvalid. See photo here [2] Sgnpkd (talk) 17:49, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- Connecting this image to the Tocharians needs a source that discusses the matter in more depth, given that this is after the Tocharian period. Kanguole 20:47, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have provided the museum label to the mural image which clearly states the lady depicted is Tocharian. What else source do you need? This is an article on the ethnicity of the depicted subject, not the style or historical period ( ie. a Roman statue of a Gaul soldier would be a good illustration of an article on Gallic people) so I suggest to not remove it unless you provide any other source that states otherwise. Sgnpkd (talk) 16:53, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- Per WP:BURDEN, it is for the person who wants to add disputed material to provide adequate sourcing. I have given grounds to challenge the illustration: you need more than a word in the title given to the work by the museum, such as a source that discusses the image. Kanguole 17:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- In fact, Elikhina mentions the mural in connection with murals depicting Uighur donors. Kanguole 14:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
- Per WP:BURDEN, it is for the person who wants to add disputed material to provide adequate sourcing. I have given grounds to challenge the illustration: you need more than a word in the title given to the work by the museum, such as a source that discusses the image. Kanguole 17:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- The mural is indeed from the Uyghur period but the lady depicted is Tocharian, according to the label in-situ of the exhibited item. Using this mural to illustrate the Tocharian article is still not unvalid. See photo here [2] Sgnpkd (talk) 17:49, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
"Indo-European" nationalists need control its desire to be Chinese[edit]
Practically all ancient mythologies of the world had a solar deity, and goddess of the dawn of the Proto-Indo-Germanic-Graeco-Roman-Judeo-Christian is a copy of the Sumerian Aya. Its the civilizations that influence primitive barbarian peoples, not the other way around. That is why when the Germanic barbarians invaded and stolen Western Roman Empire, they adopted their culture and identity, while the Romans adopted nothing of the Celts(only killed, enslaved and raped them).
So please, stop claiming that ancient China was created by "indo-european(or should I call Indo-Germanic, the original term?)". "Sino-Platonic" is not a credible website and is desperately trying to connect China with the Mediterraneans Greek(which were not considered "western" until the 19th century).
Barbar03 (talk) 02:17, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Barbar03: you haven't done your research, have you? Sino-Platonic Papers is an academic source, not a "fraudulent website" as you claim. The rest of your post is more appropriate to a forum, article talk pages are solely for discussion of the article itself, not its subject, Doug Weller talk 10:48, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
To add to article[edit]
To add to this article: were Balalyk Tepe and Kafir-kala (Tajikistan) also Tocharian-speaking areas? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:42, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- The only places documents in Tocharian have been found are in the northeast Tarim Basin. Kanguole 08:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
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