Talk:Seinen manga
Talk:Seinen manga
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"Some manga aimed at businessmen well into their 40s"[edit]
That's an interesting claim and one that's widely cited on the web, but I'm not sure how I feel about the lack of specific examples or sources. 2A02:908:F680:A800:8D2A:99B6:5789:D09C (talk) 14:03, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Trigun?[edit]
I noticed that Trigun is on the list. Not to question the author's original opinion, but Trigun was first published in Shōnen Captain and later in Shonen Gahosha. That would make it Shonen, not Seinen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.69.74.129 (talk) 05:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- You're correct that Trigun is a Shōnen series, but the article lists Trigun Maximum which is a Seinen sequal to the original Trigun series. You can read more about it in the Trigun article. --Eruhildo (talk) 05:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
- Not to correct you, but I believe Trigun Maximum was published in Shonen Gahosha's Young King Ours. Does that qualify as Shonen or Seinen? I understand that the lines here do have a fair amount of cross over (not helped by the publisher's name which as I understand has no real barring on the issue), and certainly a number of wikipedia authors have stated that the feel this is Seinen, but I was hoping for a more concrete reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.104.69.30 (talk) 15:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
- Late reply, but the marker "Young" in the title is usually a clear indicator of a Seinen magazine. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:11, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Seinen series?[edit]
Perhaps I do not understand the meaning of seinen correctly, but.. I don't think Bincho-tan and Strawberry Panic can fall under it. 148.78.245.12 05:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
They got serialized in seinen magazines, so they are young men's manga. ChuChu
What about ef- A tale of memories? I believe it is a seinen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.127.117.57 (talk) 23:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
No Anime?[edit]
Why does the list only include manga when there seinen anime as well? For instance, Ergo Proxy is a seinen anime without a manga. I understand not mixing anime into the manga list, but it seems strange to me that there is only manga listed on a page linked to by the anime page. Some of the posts on this talk page seem to indicate that there was once such a list, or am I wrong? If there was, why was it deleted? --Eruhildo 21:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- I think this needs to be discussed further instead of constantly ignored. The first issue I have is with consistancy. Both the Shounen and Shoujo articles cite the genre as pertaining to both animé and manga. The Shounen article even lists animé titles. Second issue: What's used to classify a series. I don't think serialization should be the 'be-all, end-all gospel truth'. Taking Darker than Black as an example, this animé series does have a companion manga, but is serialized in a shoujo magazine. Anybody who's seen this series will agree that there's nothing shoujo about it. Does that mean it's shoujo? -Biokinetica 08:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Seinen list vs Seinen category[edit]
As mentioned in a few posts above, the Seinen list should be replaced by the Seinen category. If I find the time I'll go through the list and see that they are in the category, and afterwards replace the list with a link to the category (for an example of what I have in mind see Viz_Media#Anime_manga_and_films_distributed_by_Viz). In case you object, post it here. Ninja neko 12:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
- I went ahead and switched the list with the category, hope I worded it correctly. Ninja neko 19:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- That's much better than how it was before. The list didn't look very good and didn't make that much sense here. Thanks for the hard work! --Eruhildo 21:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
This is not Seinen![edit]
I took the liberty of removing a good number of titles from that list. Titles like Azumanga Daioh or Oh! My Goddess are most certainly not Seinen. --Mr.SmartyPants 2:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Edit: I did not see the archives. I apologize for the deletions. Hopefully the page can be restored (Though I don't agree that a lot of the titles listed are considered Seinen). Frick, there's a lot of debate among what is and isn't Seinen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.49.32.235 (talk • contribs).
Yes: Ah! My Goddess is Seinen (show in TBS Fri 01:55 midnight and from Afternoon magazine, a seinen manga) Abacovt 05:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
"Rozen Maiden" would be hard-pressed to be described as seinen. I nominate it being removed from the list. Bricology (talk) 22:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
- It's been published in two seinen magazines (Monthly Comic Birz, and later, Weekly Young Jump). It's seinen, regardless of whatever you viewed it as. Zerolus (talk) 15:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Correct me if I am wrong but I just can not see Zero no Tsukaima as a Seinen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.195.185 (talk) 18:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- It's published in Monthly Comic Alive which is a seinen magazine. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Alright just making sure —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.195.185 (talk) 05:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Are there any seinen magazines in US[edit]
Can someone please tell me if there are any magazines that have seinen manga in the United States? Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.139.199.125 (talk) 04:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
- Try List of manga magazines#Magazines published in the United States. If that doesn't help: do a google search, try a forum, or use Yahoo! Answers. This talk page is meant for discussion for improving the article, so that's all the help I'll give you. Next time please use one of the above mentioned resources and not Wikipedia. Thank you. --Eruhildo (talk) 00:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
More clear definition[edit]
I was wondering if we could get a more clear definition of what seinen would entail. The article doesn't give any examples, unlike that of all the other demographic articles. Lacking furigana is not good enough as an indicator as anime doesn't write out what they are saying, and I have been told before that a manga which I found used furigana, was seinen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AjaaniSherisu (talk • contribs) 09:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. The definition is confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.64.146.16 (talk) 09:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
- The article says that seinen is "generally targeted at an 18–30 year old male audience". I can't see how you can get any more clear than that, but some examples would be good. I added some that I think are well known series. I tried to give many different styles and genres. Does this help any? --Eruhildo (talk) 10:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
- Most seinen I've seen don't seem to be anything a typical 18-30 year old guy would enjoy though, but I could be wrong. I mean look at Yotsubato! (Yotsuba&!), it's a seinen that doesn't hint at leaning towards being aimed at males. To me Yotsubato! is aimed for everyone.
- The article says that seinen is "generally targeted at an 18–30 year old male audience". I can't see how you can get any more clear than that, but some examples would be good. I added some that I think are well known series. I tried to give many different styles and genres. Does this help any? --Eruhildo (talk) 10:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
- If Yotsubato! is seinen, the definition in the article doesn't fit. OneMagna's definition calls seinen "darker and more somber" than shounen, yet Yotsubato! isn't dark or somber, it's a light hearted series that is very cute. Perhaps maybe we could try to find a better definition also? AjaaniSherisu (talk) 09:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- The problem is a mix of misconceptions and dated information. Misconception because seinen is not a genre, and so it can't be characterized by styles and themes. And dated because all these misleading definitions were made when most seinen manga known in North America were "dark and somber", like Berserk, for example. But seinen just describe the target audience (18–30 year old men, specifically), and styles or themes are pretty irrelevant. For us it may seem weird, as something like Yotsubato! don't seem to be what a typical 18-30 year old guy would enjoy. But maybe reading the Cuteness in Japanese culture article would help to understand why a typical Japanese men would like this kind of stories. Ultimately we should always take into account that the target audience of manga was thought out specifically for the Japanese mindset, and so it only makes sense for a Japanese audience. Kazu-kun (talk) 18:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- I guess I can see what you are saying ^_^. I was wondering though what you meant by "Japanese mind set"? I wasn't aware that I was supposed to have a certain mindset. I hope I'm not being rude, I just was wondering :(. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 05:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, the primary audience of manga are the Japanese, which is the audience manga publishers think of when doing their marketing. How does a seinen audience (18-30 year old Japanese men) think? What does a seinen audience like? Manga publishers have to think about all this in order to reach their audience. So we may not understand why an X manga is targeted to an X audience, because we don't think exactly like a Japanese, nor we like exactly the same things. That's what I meant by "Japanese mindset". Kazu-kun (talk) 06:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- But the thing is, I am Japanese. While I am only half, I don't have this mind set you talk about. Exactly what is "think like a Japanese" anyway? I wasn't aware we all thought the same. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, and if I am, I'm sorry. I just want to make sure you aren't being racist in your comments. Again, if you didn't have any intention on that, I am sorry. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 07:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well, the primary audience of manga are the Japanese, which is the audience manga publishers think of when doing their marketing. How does a seinen audience (18-30 year old Japanese men) think? What does a seinen audience like? Manga publishers have to think about all this in order to reach their audience. So we may not understand why an X manga is targeted to an X audience, because we don't think exactly like a Japanese, nor we like exactly the same things. That's what I meant by "Japanese mindset". Kazu-kun (talk) 06:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think he meant it like that. He's just saying that there is a difference between cultures. As in someone from the US wouldn't fully understand the tastes of someone from Japan because the two grew up in different cultures. Though I think he's being a little too general - some Japanese people probably don't understand why some series are published in seinen magazines either. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, ok. I get what he is saying now. Yea, I really don't understand how some seinen are favoured by more men than girls. Yotsubato! is a big example. If anything that series is aimed at everyone, not just men aged 18-30. I also find it weird that there have been a few shoujo titles that have switched to seinen magazines, such as Aria (once called Aqua and published in Monthly Stencil). Unless it made a complete change, I really don't see how a manga can go from being aimed at girls to being aimed at 18-30 year old men so easily. I've been told a few times and has been referenced in the article that furigana is an indicator, but I've been told by a few people a certain manga is seinen even though it uses furigana, which is weird. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 11:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think he meant it like that. He's just saying that there is a difference between cultures. As in someone from the US wouldn't fully understand the tastes of someone from Japan because the two grew up in different cultures. Though I think he's being a little too general - some Japanese people probably don't understand why some series are published in seinen magazines either. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
- It strikes me that the situation is not that "because of the emphasis on storyline and character development instead of action some seinen series are often confused with shōjo, or girl's manga" as the article states, but that westerners are defining shoujo far too broadly (also perhaps explaining why so many westerners outside the shoujo demographic claim to like shoujo manga). It's pretty clear: men are interested in young girls, and maturing, the young man is finally taking an interest in drama over action. All my own observation, of course, just like the statement in the article, but clearly the publishers know their audience better than we do (ie, I say let the publisher's classification be the standing definition). This also tends to jibe with my own tastes as a western thirty-something male who has little tolerance for shoujo manga. 75.105.128.54 (talk) 20:44, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Seinen - anime and manga or just manga?[edit]
Is this ANN article a good enough ref to say that seinen is used to refer to manga and anime? Or do I need to look for more? Just because we decided to not label any anime series as aimed at a particular demographic doesn't mean saying seinen can refer to anime is OR. --Eruhildo (talk) 06:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- ANN's lexicon is dated and therefore misleading, so it can't be used as a source. Anime producers usually don't disclose their target audience, so seinen is rarely used in relation to anime. If you think that's not correct, then try to find an Anime producer stating one of their anime as seinen (or more accurately, stating that it is targeted to a seinen audience). You'll realize anime producers almost never do this. Kazu-kun (talk) 07:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Since you say it's dated info, does that mean anime producers use to state the demographic? If so, can we say that in the article? Also, why do we link to ja:男性向けアニメ in the external links? And why do we link to Japanese Magazine Publishers Association? Lastly, can someone fix the other articles listed in the See also section as well as the anime article? --Eruhildo (talk) 18:37, June 1, 2008
- I think what he means is that anime producers don't really use seinen as a demographic like you see with manga. ANN also states certain aspects which don't fit a lot of seinen titles, so it does seem to be a bit dated. One wouldn't say Bamboo Blade is dark, psychological, or sexual. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 07:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I think there is a distinction in Japanese between family anime (or general 一般アニメ ippan anime) on the one hand, and adult anime (or more narrowly H エッチ anime, ero anime) on the other. You can watch family anime during the daytime on TV, while adult anime are only usually shown at night (after 11:30 p.m. - see 深夜アニメ shin'ya anime). Anime based on seinen manga such as AKIRA or Ghost in the Shell are probably just classified as general anime in Japan, as they don't have an adult rating in movie theatres or on the DVD package. Most Japanese people will probably understand if you say 'seinen anime,' but I don't think the term is used as widely as 'adult anime,' for instance. On English wikipedia, there is a section on Japan under Adult animation. Dongord (talk) 22:37, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Requested move[edit]
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 23:54, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Seinen → Seinen manga — See Talk:Shōjo manga/Archive 2#Requested move for reasoning. — Eruhildo (talk) 05:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Survey[edit]
- Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with
*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
- Support... "Seinen manga" is the proper name of the genre. Kazu-kun (talk) 05:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
- Go for it. (It's not technically a genre though, it's a demographic.) --erachima talk 05:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Discussion[edit]
- Any additional comments:
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Resources[edit]
Japan Book News #58 page 12-13, Japan Foundation --KrebMarkt 16:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
- Page 14 has an article about Tezuka, too. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:46, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Examples provided.[edit]
I think the examples are a bit too narrow, most are the dark, dramatic type when a lots of seinen manga also do slice-of-life. I think that adding a few of those would help people reading understand more that seinen is not a genre but a demographic and that that demographic enjoys a variety of things. ChicagoPiano115 (talk) 14:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
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